I actually like the very tactile nature. I think it's a shame to have to return to the previous model, where key travel is longer, but the tactility is meh.
Like it or not I just wanted to buy a Mac that didn’t have a ticking time bomb of a repair. Thank god the M1 macs don’t have the keyboard. It’s the reason I haven’t bought a new Mac since 2013.
I completely understand that. Still, it's a shame not even the mechanical design wizards at Apple couldn't make it reliable.
I have a couple scissor keyboards (the pre-magic ones) and, alternating between the laptop and the desktop one just makes it clear how much the butterfly feels better.
Im pretty sure they did make it reliable, but the ship had sailed by then.
I haven’t heard of any trouble with the fourth gen (the last one before moving back to scissor-switches) at all.
It’s really unfortunate - a lot of people really liked the butterfly keyboard - but the reliability issues in earlier versions combined with the criticisms on key travel meant those voices just didn’t win out.
I agree, I don't like key travel. I guess I am in the minority of people, because my RSI symptoms are actually lessened by lowering my key travel and trigger force. How I differ though is that I really would prefer a more quiet key than the Butterfly style. It's hard to type quietly on the toilet or in a meeting.
Just trying to help, since I’ve been there! Your RSI symptoms might be correlated with but not caused by key travel / force.
I’ve found that the dominant cause of RSI is wrist pose (position + orientation), which is mostly influenced by keyboard height (relative to your body), and also to a lesser extent by key pose.
Using a split, rising-away keyboard at a position where elbows are bent 90ish degrees and the wrists are in a neutral position is a game-changer.
Lower key travel/trigger times change the orientation of your wrists, but not the position. So it might make things better, but no laptop keyboard will provide the optimal typing environment.
I totally agree with your points. I should have mentioned earlier that I reached my conclusions about key travel and force from comparing the Apple Magic Keyboard 2 with the Das Keyboard 4 Ultimate in similar angles in front of a Contour Rollermouse Pro 3.
The cherry mx brown switches in the Das Keyboard cause more pain than the proprietary scissor switches in the Magic Keyboard 2. Fatigue sets in quicker. I tried moving myself and the Contour Rollermouse up relative to the Das Keyboard keeping good ergonomics, but it still seems to have the same effect for me.
I am still shopping for a split keyboard, I definitely want to try it but I see it as a hail mary for reducing pain given that they typically use cherry switches.
I think this article [1] does a pretty good job. (#1 result when I Google for “optimal typing posture”). Only thing I’d disagree with is I prefer to have my horizontally aligned with the midpoint of my monitor, to ease pressure on the neck.
Another thing it mentions but doesn’t visualize is the effect of having a split keyboard. Without the split, your shoulders are in a strained position while typing. You can practice this with a “ghost” keyboard and paying attention to your shoulder muscles, it makes a big difference!
Its so subjective isn’t it? I really like the larger surface area of the BF keys, but I also quite like the loud clacks of the keyboard.
I came from Cherry MX blues back in the day and for whatever reason came to find the obnoxious nature of the super-clacks (which the BF keys also deliver in spades) oddly satisfying.
How do you type on the keyboard? I think butterfly keyboard (and scissor switch keyboards too) appeals more to people who gently tap the keys. High-rise keyboards appeal more to people who whack the keys from a distance.
I have a 2019 model with the fixed (hopefully) version of the keyboard that added the debris-protecting membrane. It hasn't failed me yet, knock wood. I really love how fast I can type on it and how light the keypresses need be. I'm less accurate but my increased typing speed more than makes up for the the slight loss in accuracy.
Some of my colleagues complain of muscle pain from the short key travel on these models. From sitting next to them in pre-Covid days I can only imagine that's due to how hard they used to pound their poor keyboards.
I dreaded moving to the chiclet keyboards and then I dreaded moving to the butterfly, but at least for me they both turned out to be pleasantly surprising upgrades.
