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The alternative dystopia is one where the NSA can grab your laptop, rip out the storage, write some code into the boot chain, put the storage back, leave, and you have no evidence to know who did that.

Signed code fixes this by requiring someone actually put their name to the code. If it's not someone I recognize, I don't boot. And yes, the NSA could theoretically compromise a signing key with a $5 wrench. But then they blow their cover. Signatures create a paper trail that makes plausible deniability vaporize.



There's no state actor that any of that would protect against. You, and everyone else, is already compromised at a level so deep there is no hope of digging out if that is your adversary.

What these technologies protect is market share, nothing more.


Strong assertions with no justifications.

Targeted attacks against individuals or small groups from state actors are basically impossible to protect against. Widespread compromises of all operating systems at the boot level should be fought against.

I don't really think malice explains Grub being limited b/c of Microsoft's software at the boot level. There's conflicting objectives at play, and that will inevitably produce, well, conflicts.


> the NSA can grab your laptop

If the NSA grabbed your laptop, you've already lost. For instance, they could replace all input and output devices (keyboard, mouse, screen, audio, etc) with ones that not only log everything you do, but also allow them to remotely control your machine as if they were physically present. They could then pretend the laptop was opened (by falsifying the hall effect sensor which detects the lid state), power it on (by forging a press of the power button), log into your account (by replaying the password they logged earlier), and do anything they wanted, as if they were you. They could even use the camera to detect when you looked away for a second while logged into the laptop, and quickly do some input, bypassing any extra validation (like fingerprints or a smartcard) logging into your user account might have required. No need to modify or even touch the boot chain and storage.


The game is already over for those who worry about the NSA spying on them.

Using Windows in its default form means Microsoft already has a full backdoor into your machine, authorised by none other than MS itself.


Pretty sure the NSA as a government agency could make a US company do what you're suggesting for them.


Whether the government was allowed to compel a company to write and sign code was going to be determined in the "Apple-FBI encryption dispute" but the FBI withdrew the day before the hearing since they had found another way to crack the phone without apple's help. I wonder if this will ever be re-litigated or the government just learned its easier to pay someone to write an exploit than it is to pay a company to write a backdoor.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/03/deep-dive-why-forcing-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d...


Kompromat on a staff engineer is far more effective, sustainable and silent than a five-dollar-wrench attack


kompromat? pffff money talks. somewhere there is someone who will take a bribe, and 300k to completely compromise every toolchain in the world is a pittance.


I mean can you actually protect against the NSA? After Stuxnet, I fully trust that nation/state actors can infect whatever they put their mind to - I'd rather at least have control over my machine


If your adversary is a nation state, you've already lost.

Which gives me another opportunity to quote from my favourite Usenix paper:

"In the real world, threat models are much simpler (see Figure 1). Basically, you’re either dealing with Mossad or not-Mossad. If your adversary is not-Mossad, then you’ll probably be fine if you pick a good password and don’t respond to emails from ChEaPestPAiNPi11s@ virus-basket.biz.ru. If your adversary is the Mossad, YOU’RE GONNA DIE AND THERE’S NOTHING THAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. The Mossad is not intimidated by the fact that you employ https://. If the Mossad wants your data, they’re going to use a drone to replace your cellphone with a piece of uranium that’s shaped like a cellphone, and when you die of tumors filled with tumors, they’re going to hold a press conference and say “It wasn’t us” as they wear t-shirts that say “IT WAS DEFINITELY US,” and then they’re going to buy all of your stuff at your estate sale so that they can directly look at the photos of your vacation instead of reading your insipid emails about them. "

Figure 1:

Threat: Ex-girlfriend/boyfriend breaking into your email account and publicly releasing your correspondence with the My Little Pony fan club

Solution: Strong passwords

Threat: Organized criminals breaking into your email account and sending spam using your identity

Solution: Strong passwords + common sense (don’t click on unsolicited herbal Viagra ads that result in keyloggers and sorrow)

Threat: The Mossad doing Mossad things with your email account

Solution: • Magical amulets? • Fake your own death, move into a submarine? • YOU’RE STILL GONNA BE MOSSAD’ED UPON

-- https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1401_08-12_mickens.pdf


> If your adversary is a nation state, you've already lost.

Is that why it took 10 years to find Bin Laden, the most wanted man on Earth?

Get the feeling intel agencies aren't as omnipotent or competent as they want people to believe.


Most of that time he was in a series of caves located in a fairly apathetic nuclear power's boarders.

He was also trained and equipped by the CIA.

So, if you're willing to live in caves where they can't easily search for you after being trained and equipped by the best of the best, sure, you might live slightly longer.

Doesn't seem like a tenable circumstance to me though.


Both your premises are wrong

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-lade...

You know that lies spread online easier than facts. Why make the problem worse?


to be fair, he did lose eventually, and it took the CIA impersonating a vaccine distribution program to take blood samples to find him, which is pretty fucking omnipotent if you ask me, although sowing distrust in vaccine distribution did have some unintended consequences...


You're right, that's a fair call, but still he's a person with possibly the most recognised face on the planet at the time and really it took that long? He's not in a cave, he's living in a mansion in a city with servants and staff.

There's plenty of completely unknown actors who I'm sure are on their radar, along with modern serial killers who despite leaving physical evidence have still evaded capture.

I've had brief dealings with cyber side of policing from reporting incidents and a few friends in the services, they all seem incredibly capable but have questionable amount of resources to do the job (along with not getting private sector wages).

Some seem repeat this phrase like it's a done deal but their job ain't easy, there's a huge amount of bad people out there in the world and there's only so much focus an agency can have. Think a little bit of realism is needed when someone mindlessly repeats such things.


I laughed so hard reading this paper. Thank you share. No pun intended, but I am surprised that Microsoft allowed him to publish it!


Nitpick, this is a column written by James Mickens, not a published paper.

It is funny, true, and wise, though.


zzz, this guy who wrote this piece is either a tool or an agent.

people give up their security too easily...

the same applies to the threat model absolute bullshit. the threat model makes people think inside the box, meaning, they already accepted, by thinking inside that box, that there are people/entities they can't defend against.


> If your adversary is a nation state, you've already lost.

Did you hear about Snowden?


Does that mean: If your adversary is a nation state, then you better move to a state adversary to your nation?


It means, Qubes OS saves you even if NSA is after you. He was collecting the data in the US first.


More like, Qubes OS can help you. It isn't bulletproof, but it makes sense to take every precaution.


You can at least make it very expensive.


I don’t know what country you live in but it’s impossible to decrease your attack surface when targeted by a Nation State Actor. Even more impossible if you live in the country in which the Nation State Actor controls through a plethora of agencies and relationships with corporations.


It is usually possible to decrease your attack surface.


Unplug all your computing devices, put them in a safe, embed the safe in concrete, drop it all in the sea.


Yeah that'll work for everybody who never ever touched any cloud service and who's friends and family never ever touched any cloud service (nobody in the real world).


Just try Qubes OS with Heads.




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