This comes across exactly what the previous poster was saying as someone who turns their nose up to PHP. Especially the "you have to" gibe.
> But there are many who have so many battle scars and war stories with the language and its ecosystem that they decided it's just not worth the pain anymore.
I could say the same thing about javascript from the early days, through Jquery, and beyond. Should I turn my nose up to modern javascript because of the past 2+ decades I've been working with it? No because they are "outdated reasons" as you say
> The effort required to make PHP work with you, in comparison to other languages, becomes too large and painful. I'm not talking about superficial things here, nor do I have the tendency to overengineer stuff, quite the contrary. I'm talking about writing simple, robust and efficient code.
> I could say the same thing about javascript from the early days, through Jquery, and beyond. Should I turn my nose up to modern javascript because of the past 2+ decades I've been working with it?
Yes. And I say that as someone who has been developing "modern" Typescript web apps full-stack for the last few years.
My issue with JavaScript are fundamental to language design decisions that can't be removed due to major breaking changes. Things like having to deal with `undefined` AND `null`. `==` vs `===` (more specifically, type coercion), prototypal inheritance in addition to ES classes in addition to TypeScript classes. Array.push causing mutations. Having `for of` in addition to `Array.forEach` etc. etc. etc.
And then you have the fact that it is neither OOP nor Functional. So you get people from both backgrounds, and ideologues from both backgrounds, trying to squeeze JavaScript into their preferred paradigm, within the same code-base ... and JavaScript obliges. Because it is neither.
Every single JavaScript application looks radically different from each other and, worse, in a large organization with many teams working on a common code-base, consistency becomes damned near impossible to enforce.
And so you start adding lint rule after lint rule after lint rule until you have an entire team dedicated to maintain your custom linting bullshit.
JavaScript is a complete shit show to this day even if it does have nice features and even if you can get up and running with it quickly.
If it weren't so popular, and if it weren't the "language of the browser", I wouldn't recommend it for anything other than small teams who can decide on which "version" of a JavaScript adventure they want to strictly adhere to.
Same experience. JS is shitshow and dumpster fire. I’m picking up Vue 3 and every time I have a new question I need to ignore Vue 2 documentation written 1-2 years ago because the paradigm has shifted away from the “option” API to “composition”. The same jarring change experienced in the React community when it shifted to hooks. It is no wonder I can find a cascade of defects in just about every modern website made written within the last 3 years.
It is not only bad for the developer, but for the users, too. The overall confusion and frustrations are abundant.
I don’t turn up my nose though. I don’t judge anyone for choosing tech, especially if they have good reasons.
I’m also very loyal and pragmatic. I really tried.
I don’t want to start a language war here either. What I said above was a counterattack on the idea avoiding tech that doesn’t agree with you is somehow a red flag.
My general point is: consider that there are people who have earned their opinion the hard way. Even if you disagree.
> But there are many who have so many battle scars and war stories with the language and its ecosystem that they decided it's just not worth the pain anymore.
I could say the same thing about javascript from the early days, through Jquery, and beyond. Should I turn my nose up to modern javascript because of the past 2+ decades I've been working with it? No because they are "outdated reasons" as you say
> The effort required to make PHP work with you, in comparison to other languages, becomes too large and painful. I'm not talking about superficial things here, nor do I have the tendency to overengineer stuff, quite the contrary. I'm talking about writing simple, robust and efficient code.
Do you have an example of this?