> people pull out this idea as being something neat and I think it's a completely inappropriate technique when other options are available and safety is on the line.
But we do this with all things all the time. You didn't take a ruler/micrometer and measure tolerances between parts of the last car you bought, nor the last cab/rideshare/friend's car you got into. Instead, you make some assumptions and use some cues to inform those assumptions.
Perhaps you're about to get into some ride share vehicle and you notice the exhaust looks a little smokey for the age of the car, and think maybe they aren't taking care of it. Then maybe to take a closer look at the tires and notice they're bald, etc. This is definitely something that would be considered "literally life-threatening", but there's a statistical likelihood that makes it something that not everyone checks every time.
> But if someone dies at your concert, you'll probably think it would have been worth it to have more than one person playing safety checker.
But it's not "your" concert, as much as it's billed that way. It's a joint operation between the artist and the venue, and each have their own responsibilities. It's the venue's responsibility to do certain things. This is just the artist trying to use one technique of many that are likely employed (like outright asking) to gauge how well the other party has fulfilled their responsibilities. You can't check every single thing, otherwise there's no point in there being another party (and they may not give you that access to check), but there are things you can do let you know a closer look is warranted.
> Looking back, I think we were the dumb ones. If 20% of groups are showing up unprepared to my ropes course, then that's my problem.
To some degree, maybe. I think the best outcome would be both cases, "look out" when stuff looks awry, but also examine why it doesn't seem to change. But what if you can't eliminate the problem? What if, no matter what you iterate on and try to get the contact to correctly relay your information, you can't always get he info to all the relevant people either yourself or through the contact, and 5% still show up like that? Do you stop with the "watch out" notice? No, most likely you still do that because it's useful and better than nothing, and still provides a little benefit on top of everything else that was done.
That's what we should assume the rock band was doing. They have contracts that stipulate how stuff is supposed to be, and different staff to coordinate with the venue reps for aspects of the production, and they should be doing what they can to make sure stuff is set as expected. But if brown M&M's show up, maybe it's worth paying those people a little overtime to grill the venue on what they did and didn't do that they said they did and check their work, because who knows, maybe this is the time it saves a life.
Look, that's all super reasonable. I don't have an airtight argument. This is more of a different way of looking at things. I think those sort of tricks can help with safety, but they can also come from a place of ego. If you don't believe me, check out the Snopes link I originally replied to for what happened when there was a brown M&M.
On your rideshare example, I don't do a preflight check when I ride an airliner. I did when I was a pilot, even if it had just come out of the shop.
> But it's not "your" concert, as much as it's billed that way.
This is it. This is the difference in mindset. I now think of it as "mine". Not that it's mine and no one else's. But I choose to take responsibility for anything that went wrong that I could have been prevented. I don't care how the responsibilities are divvied up or what the contracts say. So anywhere I'm in some position where people are counting on me, I'm either going to check things myself or know that someone I trust did the checking.
I don't actually disagree with your point of people taking more responsibility, I just think the brown M&M's incident isn't a good example to illustrate it. The production crew had an extensive document outlining all the requirements, likely built up over time as they encountered things venues did not actually take the care to ensure (like the stage not sinking through rubberized flooring).
> This is it. This is the difference in mindset. I now think of it as "mine". Not that it's mine and no one else's. But I choose to take responsibility for anything that went wrong that I could have been prevented.
That's fine, and you can take responsibility, but you can't do all the work, not in any way that scales. Even in the preflight checks for the plane, you're not disassembling wings and checking for cracks on internal struts I imagine. Someone else does that occasionally and you have to trust (or not) their opinions and that they've actually done the work. And you can't always spend a week doing a thorough background check of those people either (or for some reason you're forced to use someone you would rather not), so sometimes little tricks that might indicate that you should be wary are useful.
I think you’re spot on. It’s a summary QA of the QA layer below Eddie van Halen. I think it’s a mindset and extra check, much akin to clearing a handgun after you watch someone clear the gun as they hand it to you. It never hurts to have an additional safety measure.
But we do this with all things all the time. You didn't take a ruler/micrometer and measure tolerances between parts of the last car you bought, nor the last cab/rideshare/friend's car you got into. Instead, you make some assumptions and use some cues to inform those assumptions.
Perhaps you're about to get into some ride share vehicle and you notice the exhaust looks a little smokey for the age of the car, and think maybe they aren't taking care of it. Then maybe to take a closer look at the tires and notice they're bald, etc. This is definitely something that would be considered "literally life-threatening", but there's a statistical likelihood that makes it something that not everyone checks every time.
> But if someone dies at your concert, you'll probably think it would have been worth it to have more than one person playing safety checker.
But it's not "your" concert, as much as it's billed that way. It's a joint operation between the artist and the venue, and each have their own responsibilities. It's the venue's responsibility to do certain things. This is just the artist trying to use one technique of many that are likely employed (like outright asking) to gauge how well the other party has fulfilled their responsibilities. You can't check every single thing, otherwise there's no point in there being another party (and they may not give you that access to check), but there are things you can do let you know a closer look is warranted.
> Looking back, I think we were the dumb ones. If 20% of groups are showing up unprepared to my ropes course, then that's my problem.
To some degree, maybe. I think the best outcome would be both cases, "look out" when stuff looks awry, but also examine why it doesn't seem to change. But what if you can't eliminate the problem? What if, no matter what you iterate on and try to get the contact to correctly relay your information, you can't always get he info to all the relevant people either yourself or through the contact, and 5% still show up like that? Do you stop with the "watch out" notice? No, most likely you still do that because it's useful and better than nothing, and still provides a little benefit on top of everything else that was done.
That's what we should assume the rock band was doing. They have contracts that stipulate how stuff is supposed to be, and different staff to coordinate with the venue reps for aspects of the production, and they should be doing what they can to make sure stuff is set as expected. But if brown M&M's show up, maybe it's worth paying those people a little overtime to grill the venue on what they did and didn't do that they said they did and check their work, because who knows, maybe this is the time it saves a life.