My memory took an absolute nosedive, not quite this severe but I have tremendous trouble, after being knocked out for a colonoscopy. I've lived in "brain fog" ever since, and my memory is a shadow of what it once was.
I've gotten extremely rigorous at writing notes for myself, doing sketches which I never used to need, and otherwise compensating. I hold it together on a professional note, but personal relationships have suffered badly. I guess I need to take better notes about them, which I don't currently do.
As horrific as this story is, I guess it's good to know that I'm not alone?
My father-in-law died of Lewy body dementia (famously the thing that Robin Williams had). One interesting (read: horrifying) aspect of DLB is that anesthesia can cause an immediate and permanent degradation in cognitive function for people that have it.
Before my father-in-law was diagnosed, he had had a couple of unrelated surgical procedures. Each time, he came out of anesthesia a changed man. We had no idea what was going on at the time, but the difference before and after was striking. He came out short-tempered, easily confused, and less mentally present.
Only years later did we realize it was probably because of the DLB. I don't know your age or if it is at all likely similar for you, but it's something to be aware of.
I've had the exact same experience following minor surgery, for which they 'kindly' offered to do under general anesthetic. And now rely extensively on notes like you (anki, in fact). Never needed to jot stuff down before that. Learned entire libraries of piano music by heart just by hearing. Used to be able to be able to hold the positions in my brain to calculate 5-6 moves ahead in chess within seconds; now I can barely do 3, regardless of how much time I try to spend on it. Thing is, I'm still very academic, so nobody would believe me; if I'm already good at something and I complain that it feels half-capacity, people don't take too kindly to that. Plus, people are always too quick to put things down to ageing etc. So I guess I've learnt to live with it; extensive notes it is.
> I'm still very academic, so nobody would believe me; if I'm already good at something and I complain that it feels half-capacity, people don't take too kindly to that.
YES! Nail on the head.
It's like if I take a car to the mechanic and they say "Well, its performance hasn't fallen below that of a '93 Escort, runs 0-60 in 12 seconds just like it should", and I say "But it's not an Escort, it's a Taycan Turbo S and it used to do it in 2.42, and there's something severely wrong with it!" and they say "Sorry sir, our diagnostic criteria only allow us to work on it when it's no longer roadworthy"
What a crap mechanic.
I never played enough chess to have that sort of comparison, but at work, there's a machine I built several years ago, in an afternoon, didn't bother writing anything down because it all went together in my head with room to spare. Recently I had to build another identical unit, and even with the first one to look at, I spent a day and a half tracing it out and writing things down to try to figure out how it worked. My brain just wouldn't do the thing. I constantly feel trapped in a fog, some deranged medley of Comfortably Numb and Keep Talking.
I never would've consented to anesthesia if I'd had any idea this could happen. Fuckit, I'll live with weird digestive issues, just give me my mind back.
I had the same issue with sleep apnea, which also affects your memory and ability to concentrate. Because I was already operating at an extremely high level, I went from one of the top of my field to above average -- but still quite good, so on the surface, when I tried to get jaw surgery for correcting my small airway, people looked at me like I was crazy. I ended up getting it anyways, and now I feel my health recovering to the point where it was at before. Skeptics are even noticing the difference, too.
Sleep deprevation is no joke. Parents of newborns will see a massive cognitive decline. It took me 6 months to recover from my first child who didn’t sleep through the night until she was 2.
I still have not recovered my abilities from before having a kid. I’m just tired all the time and can’t think at nearly the speed I used to. Kid is 2.5 now so hoping we find some balance when Covid is “over” (haha yea right).
Sleep deprivation had gotten to me this year (for unrelated reasons). I remember at one particular, my AC had died and I was waiting for someone to replace it and I hadn't slept in few days. By mid day it was so hot and stack with the sleep deprivation it was incredibly disorienting. I remember laying in bed hoping I could catch an hour of sleep but never fully falling asleep, just sweating and unable to think straight. The combo made it feel almost comparable to some moments from a bad trip.
Shit. Now I need to find out about that surgery. I’ve had surgery for deviated septum but only helped so much. I have a tiny airway and very asymmetrical jaw. If you’re in the US and have any resources handy about specialists or what I even tell my doctor I’d love to hear :)
You're looking for MMA surgery. Try to find someone who understands sleep apnea. Ignore anyone who tells you to get UPPP which only has 25-50% effectiveness. The best surgeons are at Stanford in Northern California. It will be a year long process with wisdom teeth extraction and orthodontics. Be patient, and good luck!
I am so ready for this. I am literally miles from Stanford, already wear a really uncomfortable orthodontic, and have a crown I just would prefer to remove and live with a gap - I will let anyone do what ever they want with my mouth - I think that speaks to how helpful this is - really, sincerely, wow. Thanks.
I skipped the drugs for my colonoscopy and I highly recommend considering that option.† It was a lot less discomfort than I expected--I get more discomfort from my abs routine at the gym, and I don't work out very hard. It was also extremely interesting to be able to watch the procedure on the screen. How often do you get to see your own appendix? And it was nice to have zero recovery time and be able to drive home.
†I recognize that everyone is different and this option may not work for everyone. I also think that I got a talented doctor. So your pain mileage may vary.
I think it is reasonable for anyone to try this, but would recommend that they have an IV placed and sort all the paperwork for the anaesthesia anyway just in case—I tried this and had the opposite experience to yours.
Yes, you are absolutely right. Not because of discomfort which is more of an inconvenience, but because having any kind of procedure without an IV in place is DANGEROUS! If you don't have an IV, this makes it very difficult for the anesthesiologist to act in case of problem, i.e. you're in deep sh_t.
Many people died on the table in minor anorectal procedures in the past due to bad parasympathetic reactions.
I have no idea how you managed that. My sigmoidoscopy (they do not give you anything beforehand) was one of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had.
The strange thing is that I also had a sigmoidoscopy 25 years earlier and it matched your experience of being very bad; I was about ready to confess if it would help. But the drug-free colonoscopy was pretty smooth. I think the second doctor was a much better "driver". But maybe endoscope technology also improved, smaller diameter perhaps? (One might also wonder why I went ahead with a drug-free colonoscopy after my sigmoidoscopy experience. I guess I don't learn from experience.)
I mean, it’s definitely unpleasant, but I have a hard time justifying any form of sedation for it. The sedation (especially full) seems more risky than the procedure in such case.
I had a sigmoidoscopy ... and that's done without drugs ... was definitely not an experience I wish to repeat. But, different people, different pain tolerances :)
After having the colonoscopy without any sedation the first time around, I find it hard to believe people would need sedation for it in the first place.
Had similar after being exposed to prolonged natural gas.
My memory and cognitive function were completely crap.
Eventually figured out I had a genetic disorder that got activated by the gas.
“factor 5 “Leiden” which is fairly common and usually not an issue, but environmental toxins can trigger it.
Result is my blood went very “sticky” So I was suffering micro clots / minor strokes multiple times week.
Went on blood thinners and my cognitive problems resolved.
You aren't (or shouldn't be) put under general anesthesia for a colonoscopy. They use "conscious sedation", in the USA typically achieved with intravenous propofol. You are technically conscious, but very sleepy and unable to form memories while sedated.
But yes, general anesthesia is really wild stuff. Even more wild when you learn that we don't know how they actually work, other than that they work.
They gave me a "sedative" for my colonoscopy. They just said it will make me really relaxed and maybe sleepy. I wasn't sleepy at all but boy was I relaxed! I remember laying on my left side, the doctor behind me controlling the scope, and the nurse in front of me but not obstructing the views of the monitors that were also in front of me. I was getting an awesome inside view of my guts! At one point I was feeling some pain and making some noises about it and the nurse told the doctor to hold on, apparently there was a pretty tight turn and she kneaded my guts so they could negotiate it. They did find a polyp and showed it to me on the monitor, TBH you have to have a trained eye to recognize those, so they biopsied it right then an there. The results came back a few days later saying it was benign. Unfortunately since they found a polyp they have me on a five year colonoscopy schedule instead of ten.
For those fretting about getting a colonoscopy, like I was, let me tell you it's no big deal. I've had dental cleanings that were more uncomfortable. In fact, there was nothing about my colonoscopy that was uncomfortable. Getting your guts cleaned out in preparation for the colonoscopy? Yeah that's a different story but the actual procedure itself is a big nothing burger.
I don't know how common the different methods are but in my case I was certainly out and that was the intent. They did use propofol and it was like the time I was out just didn't happen. I have memory issues that seem to be related to sleep issues but they were not affected by the sedation any way I could tell.
It could still be sedation only. Sedation for colonoscopy is usually done with propofol.
Patients don't always notice they're semi-awake, and most don't remember the procedure. It's perfectly normal. I you had an airway in place and were mechanically ventilated, then that's general anesthesia.
While my memory isn't 100% clear, I'm fairly sure I had a mask and I clearly remember the anesthesia person saying I would be out in a few seconds (which is what happened). There were three people doing the procedure, one just on the anesthesia (nurse anesthesist I think), and it was done in a hospital complex. When they woke me up I first thought they must want me to move to a different position before they start but it was done (I don't remember how long it took but it wasn't that quick even though they didn't find any issues). While convenient to not feel any pain (not even any discomfort that I can recall), it is unsettling to have a hole in my life like that. I can see how those drugs could be misused, although at least I can remember everything before I was out and after I woke up at least as well as I can remember anything (maybe better since I was worried about what they might find). The time I was out didn't feel at all like sleep. And the haze managed to fully clear not long before I went to bed that night so it didn't even help me get to sleep faster :/.
They use conscious sedation for both. It's unlikely you got general because there are significantly greater risks involved with administering and recovering from general anesthesia. For conscious sedation, all they have to do is give you an oxygen mask (or the tube that sits under your nose, aka "nasal cannula").
My takeaway from general anesthesia is that I think I know what it feels like to die now. When you go to sleep and wake up, it feels like there was some passage of time. You can tell if you've been asleep for 1 hour or 8, or really just that some time has passed. Maybe the whole night wasn't filled with dreams, or you don't remember them, but something was there. With anesthesia, there is absolutely nothing. You wake up and you know that time has passed because someone told you it did, but it feels like you just came out of a black hole. There is just pure nothing in between going under and coming back out. I found it really weird and somewhat enlightening.
Strange... I have this problem also and it started getting worse after surgery on my neck (decompression on cervical spine), but I chalked it up to other unknown neurological issues I've been dealing with over the years. I didn't know anesthesia was a contributor to poor memory. Sometimes it makes me severely depressed because I had the sharpest memory of anyone I know and I'm not exaggerating that; I could remember the most granular details of the most insignificant event. Now there are days where I can barely remember my kid's name. I'm in my 30s btw
This effect has been known for some time, but more commonly observed in the elderly, particularly those who already have some cognitive decline. Basically, clinical studies have show a measurable long-term cognitive decline post-anesthesia. Here an example of a paper reviewing the data[1].
I've gotten extremely rigorous at writing notes for myself, doing sketches which I never used to need, and otherwise compensating. I hold it together on a professional note, but personal relationships have suffered badly. I guess I need to take better notes about them, which I don't currently do.
As horrific as this story is, I guess it's good to know that I'm not alone?