I think this is more of a statement to how bad DB is. In Germany traveling with blablacar or mitfahrtgelegenheit is still very very popular, because trains are slow and incredibly expensive. Even if in my own country (Italy) people love to say that everything in Germany is better, but it's incredible to see how much worse trains are, and for 3x the price!
Imho DB is the best means of transportation in Germany, in my experience only people travelling with DB once every one or two years are complaining about it, because they don't understand how it works.
You cannot compare the standard DB fares with anything competitors offer, because they include an amount of flexibility no one else offers by a long shot.
Even if you only take 2-3 trips per year it already makes sense to get the 25% or 50% discount cards. A massive amount of germans have these cards (see https://infographic.statista.com/normal/infografik_3025_Besi..., over 3 million BC25, 1.4 million BC50 owners).
If you know when exactly you want to travel, which exact train and hour, then you can easily get a 62.5% discount and you are only at ~45 instead of 125€ for the trip, which given the comfort of DB vs all other means of transportation is well worth the price.
I myself prefer to be flexible and have a BC50 which includes 50% discount on every trip. But that means I can take any train on the date of my ticket or even up to 5 days later, leave at any station in between for as long as I want.
My sister had an accident with car share service, which kind of turns me off these services. She now often takes the bus that is much cheaper than DB. But then you have to have someone bring you with a car to the off site locations that bus often stop and it still takes several hours longer than DB for most destinations.
Yeah, and better do not forget to cancel those because the friendly DB automatically prolongs these for another year.
In case you refuse to pay, they send a friendly debt collection service -- Infoscore, which conveniently also acts as a credit rating agency.
If you still refuse to pay, the "independent" law firm Haas & Kollegen, which magically resides in the same building as the "independent" debt collection agency and credit rating agency, will take you to court.
Did I mention that these three entities are totally independent, as required by law?
I always cancel immediately when I get a BC "BahnCard" (same day or week), these days usually the trial 25% version (3 months, automatic 1 year subscription if you don't cancel).
It used to be pretty bad but nowadays you can cancel a BahnCard online, I used that service at least three times already during the last two years:
BahnCard 50 is 255 € per year (second class), cheaper prices for students or if you are below 27 or over 60. I don't know if they send it abroad, but it shouldn't be limited to Germans (and you get a temporary one to print out yourself if you buy online).
> Even if you only take 2-3 trips per year it already makes sense to get the 25% or 50% discount cards.
I'm not sure how you're calculating that, but when my wife did the math she ended up ditching the 25% card because it would have only been profitable for her if she took at least one trip a week.
I guess you're thinking ICE (inter-city high speed trains) not RB (regional transport)? I guess at >€100 per ride the numbers work out but most "normal people" I know think of ICE as equivalent to travelling by plane, i.e. something you may do for vacations but very much out of the ordinary for regular travel.
> in my experience only people travelling with DB once every one or two years are complaining about it
I take a two and a half hour commute roughly twice a week (in addition to a daily tram commute of half an hour or so). There's no direct route and one of the two stations isn't serviced by ICE.
I could take an ICE to the interchange station but that would barely save me any time due to the long transfer wait, so instead I'm travelling by RB or RE.
The trains haven't been replaced in ages (I'd say on average at least one door is out of order on every train I've used). The RBs often don't even have working toilets. Outside periods with extremely light traffic there is generally not enough seating to accommodate all (2nd class) passengers (though 1st class is nearly empty because there's no practical difference between 1st and 2nd class service outside ICEs).
And of course trains are routinely late or delayed. Delayed trains often add insult to injury by being delayed further when they have to wait to be overtaken by an ICE. So because I know I have to switch trains I always plan for an hour longer in case I miss a connection or end up having to switch trains again.
Let's also not forget that unlike with long distance busses, "WiFi" doesn't mean "Free WiFi". There's only WiFi on the ICE and it's decidedly not free (nor significantly better than cellular) and requires you to jump through hoops if you're not already a Telekom customer (which seems anachronistic in the times of Freifunk & co).
I'm very happy that UK's National Express recently started servicing two lines in my region (RE7 and RB48). Their trains are brand new, they waste very little space on first-class seating (which is still enough for the few people travelling first-class on REs and RBs) and they provide wall outlets for charging laptops and mobile devices.
DB's ICE lines may be somewhat laudable (though still disappointing compared to the Thalys) but DB Regio's service is ripe for disruption.
Let's also not forget that DB has a track record of letting stations and infrastructure fall into disrepair to cut costs, especially the smaller stations not serviced by ICEs or ICs (which btw, look about as vintage as Locomore).
DB regularly offers a trial BahnCard 25 special. Right now for 16 Euros. It is valid for three months - don't forget to cancel right away (right when you get it) or it's an automatically renewing subscription. You can order and also cancel online (cancellation URL: see my other comment here somewhere).
I take around 10-20 personal trips to family and friends every year, for around 1000-1500€ of "standard" fares, but pay only half with the BC50. I don't own a car. The card would cost me 250€/year so its quite a big saving. Its mostly long distance, so just for regional you are probably right it wouldn't matter.
I can't comment much on the regional experience, especially when living outside a large city. I have 3 train stations in distance of different trams. So you can be right. Although here the National Express won a contract as well and their trains are bad compared to the DB regional ones, so maybe DB is running the old trains in your region, where here in Bonn/Cologne they have very modern ones.
DB internet changed providers just some weeks ago, they now have a multi provider approach and Telekom isn't the only one anymore. Its also free for everyone even in second class on the Telekom served ones and ICs are supposed to get internet next year as well. They are even talking about adding it to regional ones.
Like with Deutsche Telekom who was government monopolist before, the competition will push the DB in a 10-20 year change cycle and after that it will be on top again with the best service and offer across the board. That kind of investment and change just takes a long time for this kind of big company.
For context: I travel between Cologne and a city near Gütersloh, which means switching trains in Hamm.
The National Express trains I'm talking about are the RB48 and RE7. There are two ways to get to Hamm besides the ICE: RE7 (National Express) and RE1 (DB Regio).
Although the RE1 is a double-decker, most of the extra space is wasted on first class seating. They do have toilets but they're tiny and usually extremely filthy. Maybe I'm particularly unlucky but as I said, the average train seems to have at least one door marked as out of order at any given time. I've actually seen an RE1 leave Hamm with an open door once (I was too surprised to take a picture though).
The main reason I prefer the RE7 is the ability to charge my laptop (allowing me to get actual work done). I also find the trains much nicer in general. The only exception was during Karneval because there is sadly no ban on drinking alcohol on regional trains (unlike trams in Cologne).
My worst experiences with DB Regio have been on RB and S trains though. I had a daily from Cologne commute to Neuss for a year and a half and none of the trains had toilets even though some of them still had signage directing you to non-existent toilets. Officially they were no longer offering toilets on S trains because travel times were short enough that passengers don't need them -- which certainly comforted me while routinely spending roughly an hour on those damn trains.
Which makes it even more appalling that in many cases it's not possible to upgrade from 2nd class to 1st class. You'd actually have to buy an entirely separate ticket for the full price.
Slow? Okay, we don't have as much high-speed rails as France, but e.g. Hamburg-Munich (775km, once across the whole country) is 5:40h, while traveling by car is ~8h.
Flight may be 1:15h pure flight time, but you have to add 1.5h of public transit time to get to/from the airports, plus ~1h for security and pre-boarding wait times, and luggage costs are enormous. Oh, and the security checks make you feel like a terrorist.
Buses are f...ing cheap, but take ~10-11h.
So, the train is still the fastest and most time-efficient way to travel across big distances. The only problem is that it's expensive as hell, because unlike the regional trains, the ICE trains don't get any public subsidies and have to be profitable on their own.
But that's the same pretty much everywhere. The Austrian Railjet Vienna - Salzburg, for example, isn't subsidized at all, but still much cheaper than DB. Or check out the prices of the Austrian operator "Westbahn". They are even using brand new Stadtler train sets, not decades old DB cars like Locomore.
I regularly travel with Westbahn, because they partner with Flixbus... their trains and the personnel are awesome (for what it's worth, they operate a smokers lounge on the train... a blessing for every smoker!).
> Slow? Okay, we don't have as much high-speed rails as France, but e.g. Hamburg-Munich (775km, once across the whole country) is 5:40h, while traveling by car is ~8h.
You don't have real high speed at all: 775km is more or less the same as Paris-Marseille and that's 3h20.
1) it's a quasi-dictatorial regime. Which means, when the government wants something, like a high-speed train track, being built, then it's built, without many ways for affected people to impede/cancel the project or drive up its price (e.g. in Germany train projects are usually delayed or the cost driven up by environmental concerns or noise complaints).
2) Money. China doesn't care about printing money or raising debt to finance the expansion of infrastructure. In Europe, especially in Germany, this is not the case. Printing money is only acceptable to sustain banks. (A policy which I absolutely hate)
3) Local politicians. In Germany, many regional/local politicians want their village connected to the ICE network for their personal fame - one particularly wasteful example is Montabaur, it has regular ICE stops with only 12k inhabitants. Every stop creates a huge delay for trains and kills their average speed. Once again, not so much a problem in China.
You can't compare a trip just by length. The total speed of a train is limited by how many stops it needs to make, and the layout of the actual tracks. Having to do lots of curves to avoid populated areas for example can slow a train down considerably. However if you can go through empty land for hundreds of kilometers in a straight line, you can go full throttle for most of it.
One train on google maps for example has 7 stops between Beijing and Shanghai. Meanwhile Hamburg-Munich has 9 stops on a trip half the length.
It's less than half the speed in Germany. The extra stops do not account for the difference.
At any rate, yes I can compare the absolute times because that's what passengers will do when making choices on how to get from A to B. If the trip in Germany was an hour faster, more people would choose the train.
In the US, it's usually always faster to drive. Traffic congestion can make the train attractive in the northeast.
> It's less than half the speed in Germany. The extra stops do not account for the difference.
You sure about that?
The non-stop train takes 4 hours from beijing to shanghai. now they stop once and it takes 4hr48 (reduced max speed from 330 to 300km/h). At the same distance, DB stops roughly 14 or 15 times. if a stop costs you 10 minutes, you save an additional 2 1/2 hours just by not stopping.
At least a stop at a major hub will take that time. Basically, you don't only have the time spent stopped at the station, but you also have long period of acceleration and deceleration - an ICE3 takes 3km to stop from full speed in normal conditions according to a quick google search. Also, trains usually have to move extremely slow (40 km/h) in the surrounding area of a station... and the larger the station, the more switches.
average speed is slower due to regular stops. beijing to shanghai seems to stop 5 times. hamburg to munich stops 9 times despite being only 60% of the distance.
As you know, the italian train system can be divided in two layers: "Le Frecce", fast trains that only stop in important cities and "Regionali", (relatively) slow trains that stop even in tiny towns. The former are fast, pleasant and reasonably priced (especially the Freccia Rossa, the fastest trains in Europe IIRC); while the latter are extremely cheap thanks to state subsides but the experience offered is awful: perpetually delayed, dirty and overcrowded.
People usually complain about the "Regionali", also because they are used on daily basis by commuters.
The regional service deserves this reputation because it has been neglected for years as Trenitalia built the Frecce but I think if you return to Italy you'll be pleasantly surprised, as Trenitalia has been quietly upgrading the regional trains to newer, double-decked cars (almost 2x capacity) and from personal anecdotal experience the ontime service seems better than it used to be, as well.
Obviously YMMV depending on what region you're in, the time of day, etc. but there's definitely been improvement on the regional front.
Prices for long distance trains are mostly okay. It's very rare that you have to pay the incredibly high standard fee when you book in advance.
Prices for short distances are making me angry, though. Here blablacar et al are indeed preferable. I once had to travel a route that was about 80k long regularily. It took me almost 2 hours and I had to pay ~ 20 € when traveling with train. Offerings on blablacar gave me the same route for 5 € and a travel time half as long.
In France, for a 5:30 hours ride, I pay most of the time 75€, 40€ in off-season, as sometimes as much as 100€.
The most painful experience is buying a ticket for Christmas season when everybody is trying to buy at the opening of the sales: a few seconds late and you lose 10€. I once lost dozen of euros when my card was refused. It feels like these riots-like black Friday I sometimes see on tv...
This, exactly. It takes me at least two and half hours, though generally more like three hours (if I don't miss a connection) to travel the same distance that would take me an hour and a half by car. ICE is great if you want to e.g. travel from Cologne to Berlin to Munich, but that's not what the majority of train trips in the nation look like.
Even Flixbus etc offer a better and cheaper experience.
From a brief look Trenitalia seems about the same as DB. The express train Milano - Roma is 89 EUR. I think DB would charge something like 100 EUR for that. The travel time (2h55 for ~420 km) is impressive, I'll give you that. I wonder how many stops there are on the way -- not too many I'd wager.
Just last week I bought return tickets from Rome to Milan for the days around Christmas on Italo (the only competitor for high speed trains) and I paid under 50 euros return. Also the distance is not 420 km, but closer to 600 (it's 480 km as the bird flies). And regarding stops, you can get one that doesn't stop at all and it's 2h40 IIRC.
That's insane. In Belgium I could buy a `railpass` which is a 76€ piece of paper on which I can write ten different trips from any station in Belgium to any station in Belgium. Which basically means that any train trip in Belgium would cost you a maximum of 7.60€.
Belgium is only as large as Italy's Lombardy plus Piedmont, two adjacent regions in the north west. There is no Italian equivalent of a two region pass, but Lombardy has an unlimited monthly pass for all public transportation, bus, metro, regional trains, at 107 Euro, plus an extra 40 Euro to access fast national trains (within Lombardy). Given that an unlimited monthly city pass in Milan is 35 Euro, it's about the same cost of your Belgium ticket. It's for half the area but it's unlimited. Anyway, if we had a region the size of Belgium probably the price wouldn't increase much: people tend to travel close to home.
In this case it refers to a specific website, well known to Germans but now taken over by a competitor, that pairs up carpoolers: www.mitfahrgelegenheit.de
If you take the ICE, definitely not slow. I commuted between Hannover and Berlin for the past weeks and it takes only 1h 40m for each trip. Driving would take close to 3 hours. I'm lucky enough to have a BahnCard 100 paid by my employer, though.
Except Hannover Berlin is more or less the same as Paris Lille. Paris Lille is under 1h and the price never exceeds 35 euros (which means you can sometimes find tickets under 20).
Now compare the prices with the price of everything else in France and Germany and you'll see why I say that trains in Germany are terribly overpriced.
