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> it's helping lots of people, but it's also costing an extraordinary amount of money

Is it fair to say that wall street is betting America's collective pensions on AI...


They're betting a lot more than that, but since all their chips are externalities they don't care.

Very few people have pensions anymore. People now direct their own retirement funds.

That's what he was saying. Wall Street (the stock market) are people's "pensions" now because everyone has a 401k or equivalent so their retirement is tied to the market. Thus, these companies are betting America's collective retirement on AI...

I thought he was talking about actual pension funds, which still exist and invest large sums of money in Wall Street. But make sure your 401k doesn't include AI funds then. You should have a choice over what part of the market to invest in.

Time for scott to make history and sue the guy for defamation. Lets cancel the AI destroying our (the plural our, as in all developers) with actual liability for the bullshit being produced.

Do you see anything actually defamatory in the _Gatekeeping in Open Source_ blog post, like false factual statements?

Shambaugh might qualify as a limited public figure too because he has thrust himself into the controversy by publishing several blog posts, and has sat for media interviews regarding this incident.

Seems like a tough road to hoe.


It’s “row”. The expression is “a tough road to row”. This refers to the fact that rowboats are notoriously difficult to operate on dry land.

Good news! You’re both wrong! It’s “tough row to hoe.” Row as in row of corn, or seeds or whatever. Hoe as in the earth tilling tool. Tough because it’s full of rocks or frozen or goes past a rattlesnake nest or in some other way is agriculturally challenging.

Here is a multiply-sourced discussion https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/62461/is-it-a-to...


thanks!

worth a try!

"is the US in a depression? 540$ for your first year to read FT!"

> "is the US in a depression? 540$ for your first year to read FT!"

Honestly, if you want good information, you need to pay for it. I've been subscribed to the FT for almost a decade now, and it's definitely helped me a lot. For context, I also subscribed to all the other newspapers people suggest (NYT/WSJ/WaPo/Guardian etc) and find the FT to be the most useful for me.

I do agree that it's really expensive, but for me it makes sense.


I just sat on an enterprise onboarding call where their success engineer did in fact blame the AI and the client said "OK"

More like a failure engineer, am I right?

Not a good look lol.

how about "Active Development" without any progress in 3 decades

> Toolchains on linux are not clear from dependency hell either - ever install an npm package.

That's where I stopped.

Toolchains on linux distributions with adults running packaging are just fine.

Toolchains for $hotlanguage where the project leaders insist on reinventing the packaging game, are not fine.

I once again state these languages need to give up the NIH and pay someone mature and responsible to maintain packaging.


The counterpoint of this is Linux distros trying to resolve all global dependencies into a one-size-fits-nothing solution - with every package having several dozen patches trying to make a brand-new application release work with a decade-old release of libfoobar. They are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and act surprised when it doesn't fit.

And when it inevitably leads to all kinds of weird issues the packagers of course can't be reached for support, so users end up harassing the upstream maintainer about their "shitty broken application" and demanding they fix it.

Sure, the various language toolchains suck, but so do those of Linux distros. There's a reason all-in-one packaging solutions like Docker, AppImage, Flatpak, and Snap have gotten so popular, you know?


> The counterpoint of this is Linux distros trying to resolve all global dependencies into a one-size-fits-nothing solution - with every package having several dozen patches trying to make a brand-new application release work with a decade-old release of libfoobar. They are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and act surprised when it doesn't fit.

This is only the case for debian and derivatives, lol. Rolling-release distributions do not have this problem. This is why most of the new distributions coming out are arch linux based.


I'm going to need a source for both of those claims.

It sure sounds very Debian-ish, at least. I’m a Fedora user, and Fedora stays veeeery close to upstream. It’s not rolling, but is very vanilla.

Agreed, but I don't think that has to do with either it's "vanillaness" or the 6 month release schedule. Fedora does a lot of compatibility work behind the scenes that distros not backed by a large company more than likely couldn't afford.

"Vanillaness" is exactly what's in-scope here:

> ...every package having several dozen patches trying to make a brand-new application release work with a decade-old release of libfoobar.

Applying non-vanilla flavor (patches) to libraries in able to make new packages work with old packages. (It's not just a library thing of course--I've run into packages on Debian where some component gets shimmed out by some script that calls out to some script to dynamically build or download a component. But I digress.)

Maybe I'm just out of the loop here, but I'm not aware of this being a general practice in Fedora. Yes, Fedora does a lot of compatibility work of course, but afaik the general practice isn't to add Fedora-flavored patches.


`crote` claimed:

> with every package having several dozen patches trying to make a brand-new application release work with a decade-old release of libfoobar.

Quite frankly, as someone started distro-hopping around ~2009 & only stopped around 2020, I have experienced a lot of Linux distributions, as well as poked at a lot of maintainer pipelines — it is simply categorically untrue for the majority of non-Debian derived Linux distributions.

It used to be that a decent number of Linux distributions (Slackware, Debian, RedHat, whatever) put in a lot of work to ensure "stability", yes. However "stability" was, for the most part, simply backporting urgent security fixes to stable libraries and to their last three or so versions. The only system that is very well known for shipping "a decades old version" of a system library would be Debian (or its biggest derivative, Ubuntu), because it's release cycle is absolutely glacial, and most other Linux distributions do give somewhat of a shit about keeping relatively close to upstream. If only because maintaining a separate tree for a program just so you can use an ancient library is basically just soft-forking it, which incurs a metric shitton of effort and tech-debt that accrues over time.

One of the reasons I switched to and then ran at least one single Arch Linux installation for the back half of the 2010s (and used other computers or a dual boot for distrohopping) was partly for the challenge (I used to forget to read the NEWS before upgrading and got myself into at least one kernel panic that way lol), and partly because it was the only major rolling-release distribution at the time. In the last 6 years that's changed a lot, and now there's a whole slew of rolling-release distributions to choose from. The biggest is probably Steam's Holo distribution of Arch, but KDE's new distribution (replacing Kubuntu as the de-facto "KDE Distro") is based on Arch as well, along with I think Bazzite and CachyOS; Arch has always had a reputation (since before the 2010s) for keeping incredibly close to upstream in it's package distributions, and I think that ideology has mostly won-out now that a lot of Linux software is more generally stable and interacts reasonably well (Whereas, back when Pipewire was a thing... that was not the case).

Now, sure, I'm not going to the effort of compiling my decade+ experience of Linux into a spreadsheet of references of every major distribution I tried in the last ten years, just to prove all of this on an internet forum, but hopefully that write-up will suffice. Furthermore, as far as I can see, the burden of proof is not on me, but on `crote` to prove the claim they made.

Also, I get how if you've only ever used Debian-derivatives, all of this may appear to be incorrect. I would suggest, uh, not doing that — if only because it's a severely limiting view of what Linux systems are like. Personally, I've been a big fan of using Alpine's Edge release since before they had to drop linux-hardened and it's a really nice system to use as a daily driver.


The real kicker is when old languages also fall for this trap. The latest I'm aware of is GHC, which decided to invent it's own build system and install script. I don't begrudge them from moving away from Make, but they could have used something already established.

> one-in-a-million events

So we just made driving a million times more efficient for human labor input


In fact, odds on someone who was complicit in developing many of the dark patterns that have run billions of dollars from consumers is reading this from their phone, thinking they should go to bed so they can wake up to the acai bowl, cold plunge, and early retirement to hobbies in seattle.

Exactly. We're doing this to ourselves. These horrible patterns are an HN reader's JIRA ticket next week, and they're going to happily implement them.

Are you actually complicit in this or do you really feel such a part of the "tech community" that you truly consider it as a "we"?

If the former, stop doing it right now and atone.

If the latter, I don't think that's healthy, you have nothing to do with it unless you're at a FAANG or something.


Email is about standards like browsers were about standards in 2017...

Browsers are still heavily standardized. Processes and organizations have evolved, but they still develop plenty of specifications and standards.

Short sentences were popularized in writing only in the last hundred and fifty years. Styles change.

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