I wish there was an easy solution like this for smoking "neighbours". Some sort of detection device that instantly closes my windows automatically and then "explodes" a nasty "stinking bomb" outside (e.g. automatic opening of a container with butyric acid or similar), so it smells worse than their smoke. Eventually their brains would connect smoking with nasty stinking and stop doing it.
"Noftsker also shared the hacker aversion to cigarette smoke, and would sometimes express his displeasure by shooting a jet of pure oxygen from a canister he kept for that purpose; the astonished smoker would find his or her cigarette bursting into a fierce orange blur."
No smokers in my neighborhood, but people use their goddamn fireplaces too much and it’s kinda impossible to get fresh air in winter evenings and often during the day. Not sure how to train them. And unfortunately, there are too many. Burning wood should be forbidden in residential areas. It’s similar to smoking in restaurants, except you can’t escape them.
My romantic views of wood smoke hit reality when I first camped in Canada's Banff-Jasper national parks, where you could buy unlimited firewood for the night for $5. Everyone bought it, it seemed. Trying to breathe downwind of a campground was a rude wakeup call. It should definitely be restricted in denser residential areas. I can't imagine some of the towns in Germany or Poland where residents depend on wood fires for heat.
Where they depend on wood for heat they are more likely to have efficient stoves that completely burn the wood. Smoke coming out of the chimney is "firing for the crows" and wasting fuel.
The stink remains even for efficient fires. Smoke is often correlated of course.
I'm in Christchurch, New Zealand which gets winter smog,. The city council enforces rules and woodburners need to meet strict emission standards. They regularly tighten the rules so that if you want a woodburner you need to replace it every 15 years or so.
But they do still smell.
The rules have radically improved the air quality here and we now get much less smog than when I was a kid.
Outright banning open fires and coal years ago made a big difference too.
I'm not sure what happens if you don't follow the rules. A neighbour can make a complaint and there will get taken seriously and I believe they have a van sometimes checking too. Although I've personally never heard of anyone actually getting caught.
It achieves cleaner air, which I personally like, and which is especially great for anyone with lung problems like asthmatics.
I suspect part of the rule tightening is to slowly squeeze to get rid of fires altogether (the outcome with the cleanest air).
> what do you do if you build your own woodburner/fireplace?
You couldn't afford to do it legally (I expect emissions testing is expensive). I don't know what the penalties are for illegal woodburners/fireplaces. My personal experience is that it isn't enforced. I'd guess penalties can be avoided unless you're a repeat offender with a complaining neighbour.
Note that outdoor braziers are legal AFAIK. Although Outdoor fires have some restrictions - especially if very dry and high fire risk.
Firewood is not cheap for heating. Even if you have free trees then it costs a lot of time (in my experience) and often equipment or transport is expensive too.
>You couldn't afford to do it legally (I expect emissions testing is expensive).
An honest answer at least and something i hope we don't see here.
But I think similar legislation is going to become common trough the EU (something is already on the books i believe) and is already a thing in Germany.
It's silly too in a time when most still heat with fossil fuels, pumping up more and more that could be avoided and i can build a fireplace with outside air intake or get a damn near ancient finish masonry heater that's far more efficient than anything one can get at the store.
>Firewood is not cheap for heating. Even if you have free trees then it costs a lot of time (in my experience) and often equipment or transport is expensive too.
I live in Western Europe but it's been cheap.
If I counted up the time invested and compared it to equivalent time worked for money to spend on other heating with fossil fuels then it comes out far far cheaper.
Even if i add some egregious estimates for the cost of a chainsaw, trailer and wheelbarrow it's still only a fraction of the cost.
Christchurch doesn't use much fossil fuels. Coal, Coal gas[1], Coke, and LPG were used in the past for home heating. Electricity generation can come from coal when hydro lakes get dry. Utility Solar will replace that usage.
I use firewood for heating when I'm using the living area but I'm not sure I'd replace the current woodburner. I currently use gas for hot water for showers but LPG is getting more expensive so when the gas califont fails it will be replaced with electric heating.
I have access to free trees, but I've been slowly finding that my "free" firewood is expensive (because I value my time highly). I'm not sure how to account for the risks of hurting myself, or the benefits of exercise!
We had a massive problem with smog, and although the regulations definitely have some bad side effects, the regulations have worked.
No one is forcing you to get/build one that doesn't far exceed the current regulations to the point where it is expected to exceed them until the end of its useful lifespan.
And the certification will cost almost nothing and take into account everything i presume?
Or will it center around the ones you can buy in a shop of the shelf like most regulation and be ridiculously prohibitive for everyone that goes off the beaten path?
We have a very nice Jotul stove that we use occasionally during winter to supplement our minisplits (e.g. when it drops to -10C or colder overnight). I've been told it's one of the best wood stoves you can buy.
But we burn Siberian Elm wood that grows (and dies) on our property, and even when the stove is working at its best ... jeez, I feel embarrassed for how much we stink up the neighborhood. Burning elm wood is just inherently nasty in terms of the smell.
It's particularly embarrassing because a lot of neighbors use pinon in their stoves and that makes parts of the village basically like walking into a cafe with the best smelling chili you've ever eaten (while remaining outside!).
People have romantic ideas about heating with fire and burn the most awful green wood in their fireplaces, stinking up the whole neighborhood. I understand burning bad wood because you have no options -- I witnessed a chimney fire or two as a kid that resulted from burning too much wet pine -- but I cannot fathom the mindset of someone who does it recreationally.
100% agree, many people don’t realize just how harmful wood smoke is. It’s also the main source of pollution in the Bay Area during the winter. Unfortunately energy costs are high enough here that people resort to burning wood to save money, so collectively beneficial policies are likely to face resistance (understandably).
The purpleair map has been awesome to at least make the problem visible. I hope they are using it to aid enforcement on spare the air days.
“domestic wood-burning is the largest source of particulate pollution in the UK. Only 8% of the UK’s homes burn wood, but this accounts for around 21% of the total PM2.5 emissions, whereas all traffic on the UK roads produces 13%” https://medium.com/the-new-climate/why-the-environmental-mov...
presuming your suggestion is correct (that forum goers are indistinguishable from walking echo chambers) , wouldnt screaming at forum goers just end up with a scream being returned right at you ?
> a full 1/3 of lifelong smokers never develop any kind of cancer,
That's "true" in the sense that it's the CVD (Cardiovascular disease) and COPD (Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease) that are way more likely to take them out first.
Lifetime Smoking History and Cause-Specific Mortality in a Cohort Study with 43 Years of Follow-Up
Sure, you absolutely can be 98 years old sucking back on a deathstick, just like you might find yourself screaming "suck it" as you take home that giant lottery cheque with some winnings.
Pachinko's a hell of a game .. but still the house wins.
The atmosphere above Christchurch, NZ tends to form layers in winter that trap the smoke and make this worse, and new fireplaces have been restricted to clean-burning log burners and dry wood by law.
It seemed like the biggest change in air quality in recent years came from the tragic earthquakes in 2010 and 2011 knocking down all the unreinforced-masonry chimneys, though.
Well, it's not the burning of the wood as such, but the lack of flue gas treatment.
I too wish we had much stricter imissions rules for fires in residential areas.
> people use their goddamn fireplaces too much and it’s kinda impossible to get fresh air in winter evenings
Not a problem with a properly designed HEATAS approved wood burning stove and properly seasoned beach wood.
Being daft enough to buy an inefficient, unapproved stove and/or and burn unseasoned green wood is ridiculous. Not to mention its illegal to sell small quantities of unseasoned firewood in Blighty; large amounts to season yourself are fine.
EDIT: If you disagree with the above, then get off your arse and write a rebuttal saying why! Downvoting simply because you disagree (rather than because the text doesn't add to the conversation) simply turns arguments into a popularity contest and is turning this place into another Reddit. (A statement of fact, no matter what the old HN guidelines say about Reddit).
Good neighborhood = keep your emissions low. Be it sound, light, or smell. These rules apply to almost all public places. If you want to be loud, burn shit or have floodlights, move to a place outside of the city.
i see both sides, having lived with both super sensitive and petty neighbors, and also inconsiderate, loud neighbors.
There are definitely sensitive people who have either misophonia rage, or PTSD from something, and they can't handle normal levels of city noise.
on top of that, some apartments simply allow smoking inside. If they always use the balcony, they're really doing you a favor.
if you are worried about emissions, you really have to think about cars and refineries and jets, and even restaurants. These are incredibly out of control when it comes to pollution and disease.
in my experience, if you're buying machines and building devices, and your target refuses to play that game, then it's clear who the adult is, and who the child is.
I don't mind the gunshots near my house during hunting season, because I have good neighbors. Those shots mean my freezer is getting stocked with venison.
I live far enough out that the gunshots are usually people hunting NFS land.
A huge swath of it borders my property, as I'm the last house up the road on my mountain.
I don't mind 'em at all, though. I think it's locals, just folks I haven't met. They keep it clean and they go up far enough I can't hear anything besides the rifle crack.
I had this problem ... a smoker who would religiously sit on their patio and smoke so much that it would smoke us out of our house.
After speaking with them didn't help ... my next response was to religiously water the garden at the same time with my jet spray ...
I have amusing videos (from our CCTV) of our neighbour regularly diving for cover from an "accidental" spray of water.
"Sorry. I'm just watering our plants, sorry about that".
I wish I could say this solved it ... but the subtlety of the point that their smoking was impacting the enjoyment of our home, in the same way as my water spray was impacting his enjoyment of his garden was lost on them ...
We eventually settled it the old fashioned way. Not with pistols or swords ... but an old-fashioned chat after reporting them to the local council.
Luckily the problem is resolved ... but largely due to the threat of the Council taking action against their landlord.
We had a similar problem and used to spray those air freshener sprays towards the source of the smoke whenever we noticed it. The advantage is that those sprays can travel downwards unlike other sources of smell (our neighbor lived below us). And they can be quite strong and linger. And depending on your local laws, you can't just pollute the air with anything you choose, but it's hard to argue against air freshener ("I just wanted my smoke filled balcony to smell nice!"). Whether it worked for us, no, not really, I don't think the neighbor was even sensitive to strong smells.You could hypothetically build some kind of smoke detection system that would automate this, but I think any cigarette smoke detectors won't work better on outside air than your nose.
People who smoke on the balconies of multi-unit buildings are awful people. It’d be a beautiful day but I can’t keep my windows open because there’s always somebody smoking to make my unit smell disgusting if I just want to enjoy a cool breeze going through.
Thank goodness smoking is becoming rarer here and is no banned pretty much everywhere indoors and near entrances.
I don’t mind if people have a vice (I’ve got mine) but keep me out of it.
Smoking tobacco got rarer here, but smoking marijuana has gotten much more common. I don't know if it's just that I grew up with tobacco, but the skunk-like smell of marijuana bothers me a lot more.
Inhaling any particulate seems like a pretty bad idea. I knew a Jamaican guy who thought people were silly for smoking it and said tea was the best. I have no opinion, not my vice of choice.
> There is no such thing as "gluten intolerance", for example
[citation needed].
I have celiac disease and a wheat allergy, which presented at the age of 3 comorbidly.
If I ingest gliadin, my immune cells take the gliadin, run a nice little check on it, and then raise holy hell and destroy my gut villae.
If I come into contact with wheat, I get a histamine response. Even a bag of (organic, locally produced) wheat flour opened in the same room as me used to be enough to make my airways close up.
> There is no such thing as "gluten intolerance", for example--there is only glyphosate intolerance.
This is absurd if you know anyone with a gluten intolerance. They have an immune reaction to organic wheat (so no glyphosate) but not to any other non-organic non-gluten produce (like oats, chickpea flour, etc. which have glyphosate).
You sound just delightful. A wonderful blend of ignorant and weird-but-not-in-the-good-way. Smoking anything is bad for you, including the thing you like. PM 2.5 contamination is enormously harmful, and it doesn't magically go away if it's weed.
I'm agnostic as to the harms vs. benefits of smoking marijuana, it's the smell that bothers me. I personally love the smell of frankincense, but I would understand if my neighbors objected to me burning it regularly.
I did read their post history. I guess it's nice to understand that people who rant like morons don't believe they rant like morons. I always wondered about the self awareness of it.
I never claimed to be polite, although I definitely temper my writing because I've been reprimanded by the mods before.
You didn't write anything to argue about. You wrote that you like the smell of weed. Well I think most people don't when they're not enjoying it, but that's only my experience with people, I haven't run a poll on the subject. I would certainly be bothered by it if it was constant.
Then you started the rant, in the most stereotypical way, X is all lies. There seems to be plenty of evidence that any particulate pollution is detrimental to health, so this is not even about your particular vice: people don't want to breathe shit you're burning.
> Since they smoke on the balcony, rather than near roommates/family, many are likely more mindful and pleasant to coexist with than what you displayed.
They’re more pleasant to coexist with because they let their smoke drift into my home instead of their own? What? They’re just externalizing the negatives of their own vice.
Yeah, it's a bit worrying that some people don't seem to understand that just because you enjoy smoking, doesn't mean the rest of the units downstream of you want to breath it in too.
a) are aware that their smoke isn't dispersed enough by the breeze / open space to be unnoticeable.
b) know there is someone close enough who isn't like them and other smokers, and is really bothered by the smoke.
They do, however, go smoke on their balconies since they were made aware smoking inside is bad for their roommates/family.
So, many of them are more likely than not reasonable people. They _could be_. While you _proved_ that you aren't, by not communicating it (or at least not mentioning it as if it isn't the most important reason why they are "awful people"), just judging them and holding a grudge.
In this very comment you again showed that you don't care enough to understand others who you might disagree with, because I am just rephrasing what I already wrote, since you replied like I didn't.
I don't disagree with your general intent. Let's not put cocaine and amphetamines on the same level as caffeine though. Some drugs are orders of magnitude more harmful than others. Alcohol would have to be erased from human society before caffeine ever entered our crosshairs.
Also, you should remember my comment was about the route of administration. A drug you take is your choice. An airborne drug works its way into your system whether you want it or not.
It stinks, it has a reek. People don't like the way it smells, and smoking it around others who aren't smoking is just plain rude. Smoke your sacred herb, but do it where it won't make people wonder why it smells like a skunk died nearby.
You make a lot of very strange assumptions about who I am and what I've done with my life.
And you'll note, I don't stop them, nor complain - I merely WISH they were a little more considerate in their partaking of the herb, I'd be less irritated.
Additionally, they don't have "every right" it's entirely illegal here, but I've no interest in calling the police over it - as again, I just wish they were naturally a little more considerate over their use of shared space than having a desire to punish them over it.
I've no desire to persecute anyone, yet once again you assume I do.
All I ask is that my neighbours use a fan, it doesn't bother me enough to interfere with them, I just WISH they could be a little less selfish. They aren't, and in the grand scheme of things it's fine.
You seem to intentionally misrepresent what I state and play the victim.
Indeed cannabis is fully legal in many jurisdictions and it's becoming more and more common - I'm not convinced by your "life and death" narrative here in the slightest.
No - I don't care much what happens to you, I don't know you from Adam. However, nor do I care how much or how little of your sacred herb you smoke.
I merely ask that if you find yourself around others, have some consideration for them. Wishing someone would put a fan on while they smoke, out of good will is hardly a conspiracy scale persecution.
If you can't grant others this courtesy, I'm still going to leave you alone. I may however post a vague post on the internet indicating displeasure for certain people's lack of manners and respect for others.
While I do enjoy both sex and travel, this doesn't seem the appropriate forum to discuss it in.
No, because the noise of people just living life is not comparable to cigarette smoke. You can also use earplugs if you’re that sensitive to regular noises of people living around you. That kind of sensitivity is not normal though.
I can’t stop cigarette smoke from seeping in to everything in my home if I leave the windows open. Also, smoking is not a necessary part of life. You can’t live silently.
> I don’t know, I’m not the one smoking. That’s their problem to solve.
It’s your problem not theirs. It bothers you, not them. They probably don’t even know it bothers you. Are you really surrounded by smokers and cannot open a window all day and night? Dude, let me tell you… you’re making your own life difficult. There are full buildings where smoking is forbidden. Make your own life easy, don’t harass others with your truths. If you don’t care why do you expect others to care.
> I don’t think they’d like it if I left a bucket of rotting fish on my balcony.
Are you comparing a cigarette smoke to full infestation?
Maybe. Go and ask them. Maybe they are truly awful people, maybe they are old or ill, or disabled. Go and talk to them, then start labelling them x and y. See? No one got the idea. All “you” want is that nobody bothers “you”. But thinking from the perspective of others? No, that’s too difficult. The best realisation I had in life was that I am pissing others off for some reasons, as they piss me off for some other reasons. Unfortunately the majority of the lovely “society” doesn’t have that realisation.
So does poor hygiene, smelly dog, a strong perfume you like but maybe not everyone, a newborn poop smell. And for all of those we have washing machines.
If your neighbours have so many kids that the newborn poop smell is filling your home if you
open the window for a while and making your curtains and clothes stink of it because it’s that strong you are well within your rights to complain.
Do you smoke? These comparisons are quite odd unless you don’t realise just how strong the smell is.
A full range of scientific evidence, extending from the molecular level to whole populations, supports the conclusion that secondhand smoke causes disease. The scope of this evidence is enormous, and encompasses not only the literature on secondhand smoke but also relevant findings on active smoking and on the toxicity of individual tobacco smoke components.
You want to have children? Cool. Made a mistake? Deal with it. Don’t make it sound like you are doing others a favour by having children though. “The society” will be fine without them. There are plenty out there nobody cares about.
Yeah, it’s simply pissing me off that no person noticed the only abnormal behaviour here is the dude labelling the whole category of human beings as “awful” without trying to understand their motives. Selfish and entitled on a boss level.
Are those who smoke on a top floor balcony also awful? Are those who smoke on a balcony of a multi-storey building they live alone in also awful people?
It makes me a little sad to see a lot of peoples comments here about how they're annoyed by xyz thing someone does that doesn't stop at there fence line or unit. So many are being downvoted.
But I wouldn't know where to start. :-\